李妍和艺术家David M.Moinot(荷兰)的对话
时间：2009年6月16日
地点：器•Haus空间 办公室
翻译：刘丝梦 郭玓
我 觉得绘画就是绘画。当你在观看我的作品时，你感觉不到画面上有刻意的笔触痕迹；这是我作品最重要的部分。我以前的作品看起来比较形象，然而现在的作品更倾 向于表现抽象的画面。这也许是一个不可避免的结果。因为我不喜欢跟别人解释我到底画了什么，而更愿意说出我用此种方式创作的原因。从这些抽象的画面中你可 以发现，我只用了最简单的作画方式，仅仅把画笔作为工具，来完成我的作品。绿色背景和黄色天空渐渐隐退在无限的空间里，这是我创造的一个想象的画面。刚开 始在重庆驻留的时候，我确信我会一直继续前期作品的创作方式。但是后来我发现，把在黄桷坪的这段经历用来进行实验性的创作将会更好。然后，我停止了 “无聊”的旧的创作方式；我为“桦树”系列作品添加了一幅新画。在那幅作品里，我在桦树的后面创造了一 个简单的图像；当我看到这些简单的图像时，我不禁被它们所迷住。下一步，我决定用这种方式进行实验，这是对我的一种符号化的指引。在尝试过很多颜色以后， 我发现黄色和绿色是最好的可以给人新鲜感的颜色。然而这两种颜色同样也不会完全地展示我作品想要表达的内容。所以，我选择了这种方式来创作每一幅作品。而 作品间唯一的不同就是笔触的不同变化。
李妍：David，你好，很高兴你来到中国，来到重庆，来到器空间。今天我们想问你一些问题，以便更深入地了解你。首先，请介绍一下你自己。
David： 你好，我是David，我来自英国。我的父亲是法国人，母亲是英国人。我居住在荷兰。
李妍：我想了解一下你来中国重庆器空间驻留以前是否有这样一些类似的计划和经历？
David：是的，我2005年去过法国的尼斯。我作为一种交换学生的形式在那边呆过一段时间。2006年的时候我来过中国，在四川美术学院进行为期一个月的交流。我喜欢和别的国家的人进行一些更多的交流。
李妍：请你谈一下这次在重庆的感受吧。
David：我非常喜欢我在重庆的生活，我觉得它和荷兰的生活相当的不同。这是一个有魔力的城市，这是一个非常有活力的城市，它好像从来不会睡觉一样，是一个24小时工作的城市。我也很喜欢这里的人，这里的人很友好，很喜欢帮助别人。这里的生活非常的有趣，这里24小时营业的商店很多，可以在任何时候去买东西，这不像在荷兰，商店一到晚上就关门休息。这里的餐馆我也非常的喜欢。
李妍：我看了你的作品，发现你很关注植物题材。我想问一下为什么会有这种关注呢？
David：事实上，我非常关注的是大自然。因为大自然中被人们运用的力量是很强大的。我不知道在中国是什么样子的，但是我在荷兰，我能看到有很多用植物建造的房屋。我觉得这是一个很有趣的话题，我喜欢它与人们生活相结合。我很喜欢植物建造的房屋。
李妍：在你的作品中，有几幅关于树的作品，你在树干处理手法上有你自己的方法，请问你能谈一下吗？
David： 我很喜欢特别的植物，桦树是一种很特别的植物，我们能够看到它总是一排一排的挺立在路边。我觉得它总是很笔直的，所以容易把它变成我想要的形状，很好运 用。而且我觉得有兴趣的是有的树干是白色的，长的很特别。我非常感兴趣的是用别的方法把它很奇怪的表现出来，让它不再是常态的表现方式。那种白色的树，你 可以自由的发挥你的想象，把它看成是一个一个的盘子堆积起来的，或者别的由你自己的思维所表现的形象，这就是我所感兴趣的一个话题。
李妍： 可以谈谈你的这些作品的方向选择吗？
David： 我的方向大概都是由具象变为抽象的。
李妍：我就是看到你最近的作品和以前的有一些变化，比如在颜色的选择上就只用了绿色和黄色。而且也不再那么的具象而变为抽象，我想听一下你对这些的看法。
David： 恩，是的。如果你看了我很多以前的作品的话，你会发现，我最近的作品确实有很多的变化。而且对我来说，这些都是相当新鲜的。正如那个颜色的运用，我觉得对 我来说，我自己都觉得非常有趣，我从来不会只用绿色和黄色的，就像我从来不用黑色，可是我不断的在尝试。用不同的方法去尝试不同的颜色的应用，但是我最后 只选择了绿色和黄色，而且作品也变得越来越抽象了。而且有一点我讲到自己作品的变化，我觉得很多艺术家总是在不断的回顾过去，然后又往前走。我自己在此的 突破和以前不在一样了。我尝试新的方法来找到自己的新鲜感以及作品的方向。
李妍：你的这种变化和你来到重庆的生活有联系吗？你会不会是来到重庆以后，对你来说一切都是新的，对你有所改变，所以你会尝试新的绘画方法？
David： 也许吧。在中国确实对我有一些影响，但是也并非全是因为如此。这是我第二次来到中国了。我第一次来中国，已经受到了很大的启发。来到这里，我感到非常自 由。我觉得，我的思想和行为方面都产生了变化，我觉得什么都是新的。所以我对色彩就有了新的想法，你现在看到我的作品，你会觉得这些色彩真的很可爱，很 美，我真的很喜欢它们，它们相当地有趣味性。我现在也开始画一些风景，一些别的作品。来到中国以后，我发现，我的思想不是由自己来控制的。我想表现一些东 西，但是这些东西不是由我自己决定的，它控制了我的心灵，使其表达出一些东西来。有的人说，看到我的作品，感觉它的颜色真的很美。但是我想如果你只是喜欢 它的颜色，你可以去麦当劳，你会发现，麦当劳的颜色也很漂亮。我喜欢这些颜色，是因为它体现了我自己，表达了我自己的思想。我想表达的就是那些打动了我心 灵的东西。
我 不喜欢一些人对色彩的评价，他们给我的感觉就好像这是一种设计出来的东西，就比如说，有的人去商场买东西，他看到一个商品，觉得这个颜色不错，很可爱，他 就买了它。这个商品它就不是一种艺术的绘画作品，而是设计作品。只是想改变你的思维，让你想要去买这个东西。我不喜欢别人这样看待我的作品，就是只是喜欢 那个颜色那样。
李妍:作为一个艺术家，为何你选择绘画这种形式，而不是装置或者其他的艺术形式？
David:一 个很重要的原因就是我的兴趣爱好。在我小学时候的美术课上，我喜欢上了绘画。我觉得绘画是一个很有趣的形式。它就像是我的一个童年梦想，我想实现它。作为 一个艺术家，是与一般人很不一样的，他的生活会变得很有开发性，很有趣味性。他的生活方式受到了很多的改变。如果你不是作为一个艺术家，而是一个商人，或 者别的职业的人，可能生活的节奏和方式就会不同了。比如说，你是一个商店的售货员，你如果要做美术，你就得在你的工作以外的时间来进行你的美术事业。你在 做自己的工作（非美术事业）的时候，你会觉得自己像一个机器一样。你会觉得不是在为自己工作，不是在表达自己。不是在自己自主地生活，而是在被他人支配着 生活，所以这就是为什么我来到中国后，我感到很高兴。因为我发现中国比荷兰要自由。觉得好像是为自己生活了，觉得生活很有趣味性。来到这里，作为一个画画 的人，我可以跟更多的人交流，觉得生活很有趣。
李妍：我想问一下，就是为什么你会觉得来到中国以后非常自由，这种自由是指在行为上没有约束，还是说，在思想上，没有人说你可以画什么不可以画什么画的好或者不好？
David： 这是一种生活方式的自由。作为一个艺术家来到中国，我用的是我在荷兰挣的钱。在中国生活，相对于荷兰来说，东西便宜，性价比很高。就比如说，我在荷兰，画 布画框，我用了大量的钱去买。但是在中国，我只要花一点钱，就可以买到很多很多的布啊等我需要的器材。在荷兰就没有那么自由，因为我觉得我的生产力低，但 是我的消耗真的太高了。在那边需要消费大量的金钱，使我的生活受到一定的限制。
当 我谈到批评家的时候，在荷兰，有很多很多人，可以随意地评论很多东西，他们有任何想法可以直接说出来。当然，不总是这样的。我觉得我们评价别人的东西时应 该有一个底限。在中国，我不能读报，因为我看不懂中文。所以我也不是很知道你们国家的一些评论方面的状况。但是，就我的感觉来说，我认为，在中国，应该也 可以很自由地谈论这些东西。
李妍：你刚刚说选择绘画是因为兴趣，是一个童年梦想。那么你自己觉得你的绘画风格什么的，有没有受到谁的影响呢？
David:是的，我受到很多艺术家的影响。有许多是来自欧洲的。比如印象派的作品我就很喜欢，还有达芬奇，蒙德里安等人的作品也激发了我的灵感。不过，我不是很受肖像画的影响。杨述,小杨，包蕾的作品令我感到很惊人。我以前没有看过杨述的一些作品，但是我看过之后，就有点受到他的影响，比如说他作品中的一些爆炸性的东西。
李妍:我想要谈一下我个人对你的作品的一些看法。你新画的作品给人很多的想象空间。就像之前你跟我说的画的是树叶和草地，如果你不说的话我就不会想到这是在画的风景，我们会有很多自己个人的看法。
David：通 过和别人交流的时候我就会有一些感受。他们很多人会很好奇我的作品是如何完成的，如何绘画的。我觉的我最主要的思想给他们描述出一种想象空间感。然后跟他 们交流的时候会有不同的碰撞。有一个问题就是我的色彩，刚开始我会担心它有一些颜色的变化，我和杨素也谈过，杨述说这种变化是很好的，应用也是很好的。所 以我更加肯定了自己的作品。在荷兰，你会发现，你摆个作品给别人欣赏的话，他们会主动的加入一些自己的思想在上面。所以我的作品也是可以让别人自由的想象 的。
李妍：就是说，你希望通过作品与别人沟通交流，是吧？
David：是的，我非常重视跟别人交流的这个版块。
李妍：你通过跟观众之间的互动，以后的创作会不会受到这方面的影响呢？你是如何看待，你与观众不同视角的对视的呢？就是看者与观者这两方面，你是如何对待这个问题的？
David： 是的，我非常重视这种回应，我觉得这样评判是非常好的，我们之间的交流也是非常好的。不过我很重视它是哪一种类型的，如果是那种突然从很高变得很低，或者 是那种起伏很大的是不好的。我觉得一种平稳的状态，很平稳的程度来互相交流是对我有利的。我很喜欢大家在一起交流这种状态，然后喜欢给他们一些想象力，让 他们给我一些启发。我觉得你一个人坐着的时候自己也会有很多想法，你会觉得有很多，但是你总是觉得没有碰撞出喜欢的，但如果有人在旁边指点，你会觉得这个 想法不错，有了一些新的碰撞。
Li Yan’s conversation with artist David M. Moinot (Netherlands) Date: June 16, 2009 Location: Qi•Haus Space Office Translation: Liu Simeng, Guo Yi
I believe that painting is a medium that can express a wide range of emotions and ideas. When you view my artwork, I want you to experience it without any distractions from the physical brushstrokes that were used to create it. For me, this is the essence of my work. In the past, my paintings had a more figurative style, but as I have continued to create, I have found myself more drawn to expressing abstract images. This shift has been a natural and necessary progression for me. I prefer not to explain what I have painted but rather why I have chosen to paint in a particular way. By focusing on abstract imagery, I have simplified my approach, using only the brush as a tool to create. The green background and yellow sky in my work blend seamlessly, creating an imaginary space that stretches infinitely. When I first arrived in Chongqing for my residency, I planned to continue my previous style of painting. However, after spending time in Huangjueping, I decided to experiment with a new approach. I broke away from my old way and added a new pieces. I created a simple image behind a birch tree, and I found myself captivated by the results. This inspired me to continue experimenting with simple images and symbolic elements in my work. After trying out many different colors, I discovered that yellow and green gave my paintings a sense of freshness that I was looking for, yet they did not fully convey the depth of emotion that I wanted to express. So, I continue to use this approach, varying only the brushstrokes to create different compositions.
Li Yan: David, hello. It’s great to have you here in China, in Chongqing, at the Qi•Haus Space. Today, we would like to ask you some questions to better understand you. First of all, please introduce yourself.
David: Hello, I’m David. I’m from the UK. My father is French and my mother is British. I live in the Netherlands.
Li Yan: I’d like to know if you had similar plans and experiences before coming to Qi•Haus Space in Chongqing, China?
David: Yes, I went to Nice, France in 2005. I stayed there for a while as an exchange student. In 2006, I came to China and had a one-month exchange program at the Sichuan Fine Arts Institute. I like to have more exchanges with people from different countries.
Li Yan: Very interesting. So, do you think there are any differences in the art atmosphere and cultural background between China and the Netherlands?
David: I think there are significant differences between the cultural and artistic backgrounds of the two countries. In the Netherlands, the art background focuses more on the mastery of form and technique, while China places more emphasis on traditional culture.
李妍: Can you talk about your feelings about Chongqing this time? David: I really enjoyed my time in Chongqing. I think it’s very different from life in the Netherlands. It’s a magical city and very vibrant, it seems like it never sleeps and is a 24-hour working city. I also really like the people here, they are very friendly and helpful. Life here is very interesting, there are many stores that are open 24 hours, so you can go shopping anytime, unlike in the Netherlands where stores close at night. I also really enjoy the restaurants here.
李妍: I have seen your works and noticed that you have a strong interest in nature. May I ask why you have this focus?
David: Actually, the golden ratio is a fascinating concept that can be found all around us in nature. From the spirals of a seashell to the pattern of leaves on a stem, the golden ratio seems to govern the way things grow and develop. In art and design, the golden ratio has also been used as a tool for creating balanced and aesthetically pleasing compositions.
One artist who famously incorporated the golden ratio into his work was Piet Mondrian. Known for his geometric abstractions, Mondrian’s style was characterized by a strict use of horizontal and vertical lines and a limited color palette. His compositions were carefully constructed using the principles of the golden ratio, resulting in a harmonious balance of form and color.
By combining the golden ratio with the style of Mondrian, artists and designers can create works that are both mathematically precise and visually striking. The natural patterns found in the golden ratio, when paired with the simplicity and order of Mondrian’s style, result in compositions that are both timeless and modern.
李妍: Your artworks have several pieces featuring trees, and you have your own unique approach to handling tree trunks. Can you tell us more about it?
David: I absolutely love unique plants, and birch trees are one of my favorites. You can always see them standing tall in rows on the side of the road. Their trunks are always very straight, making them easy to shape into the form I desire. And what interests me the most is the fact that some of their trunks are white, which is quite rare. I’m fascinated with finding new ways to express their peculiarities, transforming them into something that is not presented in the conventional way. With these white trees, you are free to use your imagination and see them as a pile of plates stacked on top of each other, or any other image you can think of. That is what truly excites me.
李妍: Can you talk about the direction you’ve taken with these pieces?
David: At this point of time my art has generally moved from the concrete art to abstract impressionism.
李妍: I’ve noticed a change in your recent artworks compared to your previous ones, such as the limited use of green and yellow colors and a shift towards more abstract representations. What are your thoughts on these changes?
David: Yes, that’s true. If you’ve seen a lot of my previous works, you’ll notice that my recent works have gone through some major changes. For me, it’s all very refreshing. For instance, the color palette I’ve been using, I find it to be very interesting. I’ve never limited myself to using only green and yellow, just as I never used black, but I keep experimenting. I try different approaches with different colors, but in the end, I only choose green and yellow, and my artworks become more and more abstract. I think that’s the beauty of art, we can constantly break through our own boundaries, explore new methods and find our own unique style.
Li Yan: Is your transformation related to your life in Chongqing? Have you tried new painting methods because everything is new to you after coming to Chongqing?
David: Maybe. China has definitely had some influence on me, but not entirely. This is my second time in China. The first time I came to China, I was already greatly inspired. Being here, I felt very free. I think my thoughts and behaviors have changed, and everything feels new to me. So I have new ideas about colors. You can see in my work that the colors are really lovely and beautiful, and I really like them because they are quite interesting. Now, I also paint landscapes and other works. After coming to China, I found that my thoughts are not under my control. I want to express something, but it is not something I decide, it controls my mind and makes me express something. Some people say that when they see my work, they feel that the colors are beautiful. But if you just like the colors, you can go to McDonald’s and find that their colors are also beautiful. I like these colors because they reflect myself and express my thoughts. What I want to express is what moves my heart.
I don’t like it when some people evaluate colors as if they are designed to make people want to buy something, like when someone goes to a mall and sees a product with a cute color, and they buy it. This product is not an artistic painting, it’s a design product. It’s just changing your thinking and making you want to buy something. I don’t like it when people look at my work like that, just liking the color.
Li Yan: I want to ask, why do you feel so free in China? Does this freedom refer to behavior without constraints or the absence of people telling you what you can or cannot paint in terms of thoughts?
David: It’s a kind of lifestyle freedom. Living in China, things are relatively cheap compared to the Netherlands, and there is good value for money. For example, in the Netherlands, when I buy canvas and frames, I spend a lot of money. But in China, I can buy a lot of materials I need, such as canvas, for a little money. In the Netherlands, I don’t feel as free because cost of living limits art experimentation.
When I talk about critics, in the Netherlands, many people can comment on many things freely. They can say whatever they want. Of course, it’s not always like that. I think there should be a bottom line when we criticize others’ works. In China, I can’t read newspapers because I don’t understand Chinese. So I don’t know much about the situation regarding reviews in your country. But from my feelings, I think we should also be free to talk about these things in China.
Li Yan: You just said that you chose painting because of your interest and childhood dreams. Do you think your painting style has been influenced by anyone?
David: Yes, I have been influenced by many artists, many of whom are from Europe. I really like Impressionist works, and the works of artists like da Vinci and Mondrian have also inspired me. However, I am not heavily influenced by portrait painting. The works of Yang Shu, Xiao Yang, and Bao Lei are amazing to me. I hadn’t seen some of Yang Shu’s works before, but after seeing them, I was a little influenced by the explosive elements in his works. His work is absolutely astonishing and free.
李妍：Can you talk about your personal thoughts on your work? Your new paintings leave a lot of room for imagination. Like you said before, you painted leaves and grass, and if you hadn’t told me, I wouldn’t have thought it was a landscape. We all have our own interpretations.
David: When I communicate with others, I get some feelings. Many people are curious about how my work is completed, how it’s painted. I think my main idea is to describe an imaginative space for them. Then when I communicate with them, there are different collisions. One issue is my use of color. At first, I was worried that there would be some color changes, but I talked to Yang Su, and he said that this kind of change is good and can be used well. So I became more certain about my work. In the Netherlands, you will find that if you show your work to others for appreciation, they will actively add their own thoughts to it. So my work can also be freely imagined by others.
李妍: So, you hope to communicate with others through your work?
David: Yes, I attach great importance to this communication.
李妍: Through interactions with the audience, will your future work be influenced by them? How do you handle the different perspectives between you and the viewers?
David: Yes, I attach great importance to this kind of feedback. I think it’s very good to have this kind of evaluation and our communication is very good. But I value which type of feedback it is, and sudden changes or drastic ups and downs are not good. I think a smooth level of communication is beneficial to me. I like the state of people communicating together and then giving them some imagination, allowing them to be inspired. I think when you’re sitting alone, you have a lot of ideas, but you always feel like you haven’t collided with anything you like. But if someone is there to guide you, you’ll think that the idea is not bad, and you’ll have some new collisions.